Deteriorate (Pennsylvania, USA) got their start as a band solidly and unmistakenly death metal of the violent American variety. Their debut Rotting in Hell, one of the premier domestic outputs of the infamous JL America label, broke little ground, but nonetheless manages to get spins from old-timers who have long appreciated its compact composition and caustic delivery. Not long after this sleeper semi-classic the band abandoned their death metal pursuits in favor of a faster, more melodic and hybridized style in line with the rising popularity of the European black metal of the day.

Interview from Heidenlarm e-zine #1.

Deteriorate Rotting in Hell came out near the end of the death metal boom, right before black metal became predominant in the eyes of many listeners. What was it like at that time to contemplate the styles in which you could compose?

Personally I was seriously into black metal since the begining…in fact if you noticed the change in styles between “Rotting in Hell” and “Gather the nebbish/The Senectuous Entrance” you can see my influences shining through out the whole cd; I wrote nearly half of the music on “Gather/Senectuous” around 1994…I was so saturated with old black/death metal like Venom, Bathory, Eestruction, Voivod, Slayer, Sodom, Kreator that it just flowed naturally in any riffs I would be writing…I mean I saw Kreator’s first US tour[I believe] at City Gardens in Trenton NJ with Voivod I think it was “Pleasure to Kill/Killing Technology” tour – this fucking show was so fucking brutal, I was blown the fuck away, it still to this day had to have been the most influential moment in my life, as I watched them play flawlessly I said to myself that’s what I want to do and I’m going to do whatever it takes to get there…so I played everyday for years until I was 17 formed my first band it was called “randomdraw” a hardcore/metal band we sounded like cromags vs rage against the machine…anyway after a few years of other bands and stuff I joined Deteriorate which is a long story in itself!…so my goal with them was to take it to the next level get so into the music and just fucking go apeshit and I think it all worked out perfectly…..

It seems to me that death metal has always had two opposing sides, one of which emphasizes fast tremolo picking and relatively few emphatic pauses, while the other side uses muffled strumming and a morse code of pausing and pounding to spell out its riffs. What made you gravitate toward the faster metal side?

When I started playing guitar in ’82 I thought that metal had a missing element that hardcore bands seemed to emphasize on “speed”. So I started playing as fast as I could thinking that it would make me more talented as a player…so I would write these riffs and put them together with my younger brother Justin and we would play these blazing fast songs full of ‘squeals’ and violent solos like Slayer or Cryptic Slaughter…but after some time speed wasn’t good enough so I added into my style harmony&melody…I wanted something different say warmer tones, so I got into Malmsteen alot and Voivod, Black Sabbath, Ozzy, Motley Crue, Iron Maiden, Celtic Frost ‘morbid tales'[my favorite guitar sound ever], Exodus, Violence, Metallica, Megadeth, Bathory, Anvil Bitch, Dominance, Faith or Fear, Flotsam and Jetsam, Death & tons more…I started going to 2 to 3 shows a week it was so intense there were lines down the street; as I saw these bands perform in the early mid 80’s I was blown away it was so intense my world had become near perfect! At the same time I was extremely jealous, I thought to myself why can’t I do that? There was one reason why —drummers—there is such a shortage of quality drummers that could do blaast beats or grind or doublebass let alone afford a decent kit…I was so into technical metal that it made it even harder to find someone.

There were fewer people involved with death and black metal in that time, unlike the current scenario. What do you think are the differences in a musician’s experience between the two?

Nowadays its more open to all; the styles combined, there are a thousand times more muscicians that are dying to play…equipment is far more affordable and more directed towards metal hard rock players…the nu-metal styles are bringing more people to wards heavier music especially women! I always thought that if you could get women into your band then men would follow hence bringing your numbers at the door up at the club you’re playing…

What to you makes a series of chords and rhythms a “riff”?

I’m always looking for something different or catchy or “hook” riffs…riffs that make you say “hell yeah that rips” and your hair stands up on your whole body…or like in the 80s the introduction of the word “mosh”or “not” where anthrax introduced to me the true pit styles I actually went nuts at every show we all our own style of moshing or dancing,or the dive kings, we tried every kind of dive you could think of it was a contest to us to see how long you could stay on stage or how long you could wave ride…it was the best years of my life it was so fresh new different and the normal people didn’t even notice any of these bands we were such a minority back then, I was always saying in school that Metallica will be the biggest band ever and 10 years later I was damn near right…I was the only kid in my juniore high with an earring and a denim jacket with death metal patches all over it…

Fo you compose by riff assembly, or is there a pattern into which riffs fit first?

Actually I have an odd style of writing I usually number the riffs along with names for each part and write it all down,so if I forget I have notes…in Deteriorate I played bass but I wrote the riffs on my 7string and brought my guitar to practice where I showed them the riffs…my newer bands I play guitar and sing on almost everything…I write all the music and vocals and let my drummer mike trush write the drum parts…I usually write all the music in my head at work and then go home and play my ass off…

Many of your songs on Rotting in Hell preserved a casual but intense atmosphere of using little introduction and tearing into the material on hand immediately. Was this a reaction to the riff-salad-heavy metal songs of the time, which often took half of the song just to get cooking?

Actually I didn’t play anything on “Rotting,” although I was in the band months before the recording sessions, I was asked to play on “Rotting” but it didn’t feel right playing songs on a disc that I had no part in writing so I declined…if you asked me about “Gather/Senectuous” I would have to say they were flowing and melodic…
lyrically, the band also played at least two sides, having some “gore” topics and a fair number that could have been interpreted as more gothic, romantic or moribund.

What inspired the lyric writing on this album?

As far as “Gather the Nebbish,” I sang 3 songs and wrote a major part of the music, my lyrics were directed towards my hatred towards a society that hates people like me…I would first get into a raging pissed off mood then write the music then the lyrics would just kind of “bleed” to me,you know what I mean?..I went in the studio and basically freaked out in the vocal booth screaming my heart out jumping around like a fucking lunatic,..in fact 2 of the songs I sang on “Gather” came about on the spot, I did the vocals on one take not even rehearsing them once: Evaporated Battleground/Ode to a Mortal” my good friend Trevor Schaible donated those 2 sets of lyrics and I took them in the studio and ad libbed the songs it just so happened they came out pretty good in my opinion total chaos!!

After Rotting in Hell, Deteriorate took a break. What happened during this time?

We went through some member changes and more of my writing came into effect, we really spent a lot of time rehearsing doing shows and getting more professional about ourselves and we said to ourselves what can we do to make this band better and more brutal and so we did just that…

After this break you released, The Senectuous Entrance, which in my view is two albums put together — one that could be described as Emperor-style gothic black metal, and another that was more heavy metal/punkish. What brought about this dichotomy?

I basically came into the band with alot of the ideas already to go, I brought to the band my musical background and it took over I guess…I never really heard any of the newer black/death metal bands, which bothered me when people said we are a rip of of Norweigan bands, its totally not the truth, I was doing this type of music inthe early 80s I was playing the 3rds minor this dissonant that you name it ..if you notice “Rotting” has none of the harmonies and minor chords, I brought that to the band and we took off with it, I was in bands prior to that which had similiar traits…

Your songs convey as much energy as any other band out there. How do you do it?

I tend to think to myself if I was in the crowd or a listener what would I want to hear and I do it…energy is the first priority nowadays in my band “Treading on Divine” I do simpler arrangements but it works for me, there is more flowing riffs and catchy hooks…

The band has been around since 1991. How do you think metal, or death metal, has changed over the course of that time?

All the genres have improved with the times…certain bands keep their styles others evolve into something different I think both scenarios work,it gives fans an oppurtunity to hear something new therefore creating another rip in the timeline for a new genre..

How has Deteriorate as a band integrated those changes into its music?

Currently Deteriorate is rehearsing for a new release in the future but Mike Trush and myself are quite busy so it takes some time to get it together…other members are in Krypton or not doing music at all…

Your songs are convoluted in the logic that produces continuity between their riffs, enough that they must be heard through once fully before being interpreted. How do you think the awareness of this process in the listener affects how you compose?

It gives me a flowing feel to it, I can sit and bob my head continuosly from start to finish, I can only assume that our fans or listeners do the same thing…it has that warm feeling about it…the 5 unreleased songs have a brutal chaotic war type sound to it, but we still incorporated the Deteriorate flow and sound to it…

When you are composing a song and have two directions in which it can go, how do you select which one should prevail?

It was always a band vote or else we would just open jam and if it went in some new direction that sounded cool we would work with it…it’s truly important to find muscicians that you can openly do unplanned jams ,its usually where you find a truly nwew and original riff,where as when you are at home there is no drums or band influence there to strengthen the song or give you a nod or an added riff between another riff….

You seem to be a non-political band, as far as lyrics are concerned. Do you have any political or social change views that you keep to yourself, or are you detached from the entire process of politics and ideology?

Personally I try to incorporate politics or truth in my lyrics, these topics enrage me making my songs come out even more chaotic, I try to let the lyrics influence my choice of riffs after the song is written of course, the lyrics might change a part into something different or brutal…

The USA may be about to wage holy war on Iraq and the Middle East. Is this a metal topic to discuss?

Yes and no…I feel it’s all a front to keep americans intrested in the politics of this country…the president has to do something to keep his people supporting him…with all the things like snipers, Iraq, WTC and racism, he can shift the peoples attention away from starting a war with Iraq, he made everybody shift their attention from Iraq to the snyper atacks, getting everyone pissed off, so now the people are hungry for some desruction somewhere other than here, and to make it work even better the one snipers last name was Muhammad…it worked, he’s got the ok to wage a war on Iraq, I’m not surprised and I do support this war…these people need a leader that has enough brains not fuck with the most powerful country in the world, us!!!

Do you think that music conveys values based upon what positive beliefs are affirmed in the music, even in simply its sound which resembles facets of the outside world?

It does…music has been the center of attention since the beginning of its creation…it can take you out of reality or define reality and it seems that both work very well…I mean people take a cd put it in then something happens, almost chemically in their brain and it feels good,others feel bad or angry or something, its amazing how this works…I always thought that you could totally control or program people of all ages through certain notes played in precise actions in the brain, when I hear certain notes a feel it all over my body its really quite remarkable [I hope this made some sense to you, I think I understand what I just said hahaha]

Is it possible to be a musician without sharing some of your views through music?

Definitely… I’m really into Burzum, Varg does an excellent job at creating a soundscape, it’s total headphone music, which is one of my favorite ways of listening, Varg uses his feelings and beliefs through beautiful music, but yet you can still understand his anger and pains…Mortiis does similar work but his feelings tend to be fantasy like or dungeons and dragons theme music, both are excellent…

You’re now working on new material with a band called Treading on Divine. This title seems to have more metaphysical implications than the gore-metal-ish idea of Deteriorate. What is different about the music and outlook of Treading on Divine as compared to Deterioriate?

“Treading on Divine” is a project that I started around 98 right around the breakup of Deteriorate myself and joe gorski were fed up with the scene in Philly so we moved to south florida and started playing…he was on drums and I played and sang..eventually we grabbed my brother [who is the best guitarist I’ve ever seen] and Conrad Eddings on bass…we had 3 songs and so it was born…down the road we fell into the party scene down there 3 of us worked in nightclubs so if we weren’t working we were partying thus the band suffered…I had also another band with the samme members except Chris Dino plyed drums that was called ‘twitch’ it was really good stuff….so eventually we after 2 years parted ways I moved back north and started the band with other people, Thorous-lead guitar, Mike Trush-drums, Chris Berwind-bass and Alex Davis-guitar….we rehearsed about a year and 2 of the members didn’t progress so I let them go, now it’s myself, Trush and filling in on bass Jason Hildebrandt from Funeral Mask, Cemetary Earth, Hazarax…we’re ready to record a EP..full length soon the title is “thy only god”..the difference between Deteriorate and treading is I write all the music and arrangements, they’re more flowing and basic riffs…it has black, grind,melody,harmonies,thrash,death styles…in Deteriorate the riffs were all voted on whether I liked it or not so alot of good riffs got trashed, since I saved these riffs and used them now,so some of these songs are quite old…we do one song called “Viral Gore” which is from 1988; some are from 89, these are more thrashy,…the “Treading” songs have “hooks” that make you say hell yeah! As far as the lyrics “Treading on Divine” is based upon my hatred towards authority, I don’t like being told what to do, ever! Not by anyone including my girlfriends….this is the topic I have been griping about forever…i get political on some sogs others are about my nonreligon attitude…being my own god and all that…

What bands are you listening to now?

Voivod-Deathrow-DBC-Burzum-Devil Doll-Elend-Marilyn Manson-Ozzy/Sabbath-Golden Dawn-Entombed-Dismember-Fantomas-Mr. Bungle-Thorns-Abruptum-Mayhem-Behemoth-Venom-Destruction-Kreator-Sodom -Vond-Ulver-old W.A.S.P.-Metallica-Megadeth-Slayer-Darkthrone-Mercyful Fate-Celtic Frost-Belphegor-Tartaros-Tomahawk-Jimmy Rodgers-Sabbat-Immolation-Exodus-Emperor-Autopsy-Laibach-Bloodstorm-Se rvants of Hate-Funeral Mask-LiveSufferDie-Ministry-Christian Death-Violence-Anthrax-Forbidden-Abigor… I could go on forever!

It appears the downturn in the US and world economies has affected metal. Are you able to find a label at this point in time? Are you going to self-release this upcoming album?

Actually Philadelphia has so many labels here…I am talking with a few labels none that I want to name just yet but I have made mistakes with labels in the past and I don’t want to lose money and touring again. When I first joined Deteriorate we had tons of touring offers, some with morbidangel for 40 dates but our drummer had a custody battle going on so he couldn’t do the tours, eventually that was why we replaced him with Darkwoods, Rich was a great drummer though…

How do you think the internet has changed music, from your first album in 1993 to your second in 1996, and now to the current time?

The internet is excellent for underground bands like us to get exposure…it’s amazing how much stuff is out there…I can always find something interesting on the web….

Do you think most metallers have a common general direction of their ideology, or is there no unity in thought in the scene?

I honestly think everybody is different anymore, I always hear different opinions about every topic…,sure theres unity but not really where i’m at…i live in a city that has everybody thinking differently I don’t know why…theres always bands that are jealous of others or pissed offf that they’re opening for a band that they think sucks,i’ve been dealing with this shit since 89…we used to get every tour package that came through philly no matter who was headlining the tour we always got the top slot on the bill…this made all the local bands hate us instead of supporting us which would come back to them in the end…i think nowadays its different theres more unity in the scene…back in the 90s we could’ve all stuck together and the philly scene would’ve been the next tampa bay thing,instead when the cell block closed the bands dissapated,noone astuck to gether and bands broke up, its a shame because we really had some good bands in our scene,to tell you the truth most of those bands are like invisible because I haven’t seen many of those muscians again….

After the rise of nu-metal and bands like Slipknot, does metal any longer have the “coming in from the outfield” strangeness and dramatic impact that it once had?

I feel that this is the metal years all over again, history is repeating itself but in a grander way…a majority of people today appreciate metal and hard rock, its not that uncommon anymore,you hear metal on the radio everyday…we have such a wide variety of bands to chose from along with a generation of people that grew up om metal ranging from 10 to 40 years old….most like something heavy if not ozzy/sabath then metallica or godsmack or something…to me this is positive for the scene…
why metal? it’s not an easy artform, there’s no money and most people seem to hate it or disparage it. why do you keep going? (this is not a criticism, hopefully obviously, since i’m still in this after as many years too!)

I can’t stop! I love it the heavier it is the better….then again everybody will probably hate me for this but I like Marilyn Manson alot…his music is super creative, its full of hate, evil, and other postive shit that just makes him an icon for heavy mainstream music he’s actually helping the world get into heavy music which opens the doors for bands like mine,he has the flow we were talking about earlier, I am open minded to some degree….I like stuff from almost every genre doesn’t mean its good for everybody else, but it’s good to me and I don’t care what anybody thinks….who cares what I listen to anyway you know? To each his own….theres a litttle bit of everyting in bands today it means that awider range of audiences will buy into heavier music…[i hope]…

If you could tour with two or three bands from anywhere and anytime in metal, who would it be?

Voivod!!!!!!!Slayer!!!Morbid Angel!!!

Where do you think metal will go next?

Its going to get even bigger, I know I want more of it and I’m not going anywhere but more angrier then before…I have more anger in me than ever before and I need bands to fuel my fire!!!

Jazz, ambient, industrial, and punk: all of them exist as separate genres, niches if you will, from the mainstream as does metal. But somehow jazz and ambient get more respect and never quite fully are able to integrate with the mainstream of radio music. Do you think this is due to increased technicality, radically unpopular song structures, ability of audience to appreciate complexity, or other factors? Do you think this same distancing from mainstream radio music could help metal?

Maybe the jazz thing is of the other half of society that doesn’t listen to rock or metal or mainstream music…it could be an older generation or possibly the trained muscicians of the world are more appreciated…I know I’ve never had a lesson in my life but it still kept me busy and somewhat talented…

It used to be there were tons of zines, and people mailing stickers and dubbed cassettes all over the world. Metalheads today trade web links and mp3s, and there are now thousands of websites each offering small fragments of information. Where is this weak(er), and what’s next after this? Do you think metal will consolidate its information?

it can only get better,the more publicity for my style of music the better…

Do you believe humanity is about to blow itself into vapor?

Not really its pretty much the way its always been to me, bullshit, politicians, religon it’s all always there its just a matter of what you buy into…

What has changed about the songwriting process for Treading on Divine that is separate from how Deteriorate worked in both incarnations?

Actually not much maybe different tempos or not so much blast and grind beats…I have been working on more catchier riffs that have a more grooving sound to them its still in the black/death metal vein…

Who’s in the band now?

Thorous[guitar/vox] Mike Trush[drums/vox/bass]

Are you going to repress Rotting in Hell and The Senectuous Entrance?

Actually we have the original recording of “Rotting in Hell” which was recorded at an entirely different rcording studio…the vox are even more brutal..we are going to release it soon with the original cover that was deemed to satanic for our onr guitar player….

Where do you hope to be in ten years?

hopefully touring the world and playing brutal music forever!!!!!!!

What do you do outside of metal, as individuals, and who is in the band?

I have my historic renovations business…I do old world/european style stonework and replications. I’m planning to do a house in Spain this spring, its my other passion in life!!

Any final additions?

Its cool to know that there’s people out there still into Deteriorate and the old school metal bands…I appreciate any people who would like a copy of unreleased material and videos…send me tapes and postage to: thorous—-170 smithtown rd. pipersville,PA 18947 Keep the metal world alive! Don’t give up playing your instruments,follow your dreams, I had dreams when I started playingt and so many came true, if I can do it anyone can do it! Keep trying your best,sing your heart out! Play all day and night! Make a difference, speak your mind! Don’t take any shit from anyone! Don’t let anyone push you around, you’re only as powerful as you believe you are! Keep metal alive! Kick some ass! – And support the local bands in your area, without people like you local bands will fade away, go to as many shows as you can, and buy as much merchandise as you can, it will come back to you in some way! Thanks for giving me the chance to vent SRP! – thorous…treading on divine….

The natural inequality of the two powers of population and of production in the earth and that great law of our nature which must constantly keep their effects equal form the great difficulty that to me appears insurmountable in the way to the perfectibility of society. All other arguments are of slight and subordinate consideration in comparison to this. No fancied equality, no agrarian regulations in their utmost extent, could remove the pressure of it even for a single century. And it appears, therefore, to be decisive against the possible existence of a society, all the members of which should live in ease, happiness, and comparative leisure; and feel no anxiety about providing the means of subsistence for themselves and families.

Consequently, if the premises are just, the argument is conclusive against the perfectibility of the mass of mankind.

– Thomas Malthus, Population: The First Essay (1798)

Old-school authenticity is typically a contradiction in terms in the realm of modern death metal. Cruciamentum, hailing from the UK, seeks to strike back at this notion with their own stated purpose of delivering a “spiked fist in the face of trendy ‘death metal'” with a encapsulating, occult delivery and conviction in its creation.

You’ve gone for an old-school approach, updated with elements from the “mature” and final albums of the old school. What did you pick from each, and why did you take this approach?

There was no conscious decision to adopt the sound we have, it just came naturally. I prefer to just call our music “death metal” rather than applying any other tags to it. To me the phrase “old school” tends to imply just another Nihilist clone rather than a band with any character of their own. However, a lot of the old bands are personal favourites amongst the band’s members, so doubtlessly they are an influence on our writing.

What appeals to you about the old school sound?

Darkness, evil, power and song writing. All the things that modern death metal lacks!

If you could identify your primary influences, what would those be?

Incantation, Absu (Barathrum, and Temples of Offal era), Demigod, Shub Niggurath, Morbid Angel, and Immolation, though a lot of the time it depends on my mood.

Then suddenly the clouds thinned and the stars shone spectrally above. All below was still black, but those pallid beacons in the sky seemed alive with a meaning and directiveness they had never possessed elsewhere. It was not that the figures of the constellations were different, but that the same familiar shapes now revealed a significance they had formerly failed to make plain. Everything focussed toward the north; every curve and asterism of the glittering sky became part of a vast design whose function was to hurry first the eye and then the whole observer onward to some secret and terrible goal of convergence beyond the frozen waste that stretched endlessly ahead.

– H.P. Lovecraft, The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath (1927)

When you write songs, do you start with a visual concept, or a riff, or something else?

A mixture of things; I’m a slow writer and different things inspire different parts. Usually it starts with a riff and then progresses naturally from there. Sometimes it can be just a mental image and I try to write riffs to convey that feeling. The riffs are always composed before we practice and then we structure the song in the rehearsal room together as a band.

It seems obvious to me, when all factors are added up, that our society is in decline. However, this opinion is not widely shared. Why do you think this is?

This is an interesting subject, but I don’t think that it is something that can be easily summed up in a couple of paragraphs. I do agree with you that there has been a strong moral decline in the last decade; people have become lazier, apathetic and more selfish. Many I have heard attribute this to the economic decline of the last few years, and although I don’t doubt that the inevitable depression caused in worse affected areas by poverty and unemployment is to blame, but I think that these problems are older than the economic problems. Bear in mind I am only 26, but I have noticed since my childhood a huge rise of an entitlement attitude in people in England. People seem to believe now that they are entitled to more, and many will grab at whatever they can lay their hands on, people have started to have children younger so that they can receive benefits and lead a more comfortable and lazy life. No doubt the obvious neglect on these “unwanted” children is having a serious effect on the younger generation’s behaviour as well. Perhaps with people’s needs being catered to more easily we have just simply eradicated the need for friendlier, close-knit communities? To be honest, I have no answers to these questions, just speculation of my own. I’d be more than happy to discuss this at further length in person with anyone interested though.

What would define “success” for you with your music?

In terms of Cruciamentum, I think that we have already reached it by writing and recording music that we are immensely proud of. We have no interest in making money, extensive touring, furthering our social lives, or anything else. As long as we have made something that we ourselves are happy with, that is all that matters.

Do you believe underground metal is still a viable form of music?

Of course, the current underground has produced some of my favourite bands! Bands like Necros Christos, Dead Congregation, Ignivomous, etc., I believe can stand by the classic bands such as Morbid Angel, Incantation, Deicide etc. The musical climate is just different these days, if the bands I mentioned previous came out in the early 90s they would have been much bigger, these days mainstream metal is more about image than musical content which is why the “true” bands of today remain in virtual obscurity.

What distinguishes great music from bad? Can it be distilled into technique, or is it something less easily defined?

Great music is music that connects with its listener. I don’t think technique has anything to do it, just the ability to do your own thing and do it with enough conviction that it can be conveyed in the music.

What releases have you produced so far, and where are you taking the band at this time? What’s next for Cruciamentum?

So far we released a one-track demo in 2008, and the 2009 demo Convocation of Crawling Chaos. We’re currently writing material for a MLP which we hope to start recording in a few months time, which will be released through Nuclear Winter Records. Expect around 25 minutes of new music. We also have started playing our first foreign gigs in Italy, Belgium, Germany, and Finland.

Did you ever study music theory or take lessons? Did this help you or slow you down in achieving your musical goals?

I’m not sure about the other members, but I took a few lessons when I started playing guitar and then gave up and taught myself. I’ve also studied Music and Music Production. The theory helps in understanding each other when writing new material, but we’re not a complex band, and we don’t compose based on music theory.

Some have said that rock music is about individualism, or escaping the rules of society and nature to do whatever the individual wants to do. However, some have also said that heavy metal breaks with that tradition with its “epic” and impersonal view of life. Where do you fit on the scale?

I believe that to be a dated concept now. I’m sure that was very much true in the early days of rock-n-roll while our parents and grandparents were young, but since then I believe rock music and metal has become just another genre that has found its niche in popular culture where it can be watered down and devalued for popular consumption. I genuinely couldn’t say for sure where we fit into this, I think that is partly to be decided by how the listeners interpret us.

One of the most striking signs of the decay of art is the intermixing of different genres.

– Johann Wolfgang van Goethe, Propylaea (1798)

When Hellhammer said, “Only Death is Real,” it launched legions of death metal and grindcore bands who showed us through sickness, misery and sudden doom (in their lyrics) that life is short, manipulations are false, and we need to get back to reality. Where should the genre go from there?

I think that that phrase sums it all up perfectly! Death is a key element to life, and that is something that everyone should pay some thought to. I wouldn’t say that metal is there specifically to remind people of this fact though; there are plenty of different directions to take the lyrical and philosophical approach of the music in.

Is there a relationship between how an artist sees the world, and the type of music he or she will then make? Do people who see the world in similar ways make similar music?

Yes, I think there is some truth in that. Although the personalities in Cruciamentum are different, all members have a similar attitude. Personally speaking, I have quite a negative outlook on life, I don’t think someone who is part of a popular social group would feel the same emotions that I do that are required to channel into making the music we do.

Do you think your music will have a “real world” effect, other than people buying and listening to CDs? Will they take your ideas and do something of them?

I doubt it. Due to the nature of the music, we will already be preaching to the converted, to reach a wider audience we would have to severely compromise our style, or even play a different style of music, and Cruciamentum exists to create dark music, not to preach.

When did Cruciamentum form, and what was the goal? How long did it take to produce your first recordings, and how have you changed since then?

The band dates back to 2005, though it took me until late 2008 to finally find all the right musicians for the band. Before the Convocation… demo, there was probably around an hour of music written, but the demo was such a huge leap forwards from that material that it has all been abandoned. The Convocation… demo took roughly around a year, as I fired the entire line-up at one point, and re-wrote the songs with the current line-up. Then there were numerous set backs in the recording process, and further set backs in having the demos printed. Hopefully that is the end of the troubles now though!

As for changes, since our inception we have improved more than I could have imagined back in 2005. The band finally has all the right people, the attitude is right, and we’re moving forwards.

Do you think the “underground” still exists?

Yes, it has simply changed from what it used to. With the internet making it easier to access some music, it has obviously become more widespread, and to a degree perhaps watered down, but there are plenty of die-hards with the right spirit.

Can you tell us what equipment you use, and what production techniques you use for recordings?

There’s nothing special equipment wise. We use BC Rich and Jackson guitars, various FX pedals, Warwick basses, Pearl drums and whatever amplifiers we can get our hands on. For the demo we recorded the drums at The Priory Studios with Greg from Esoteric, and I recorded, mixed and mastered the rest. I think we will do the same for the next recording; I’ve bought a lot of new equipment since the demo, so we should get a better sound this time round.

Yet I am not more sure that my soul lives, than I am that perverseness is one of the primitive impulses of the human heart as one of the indivisible primary faculties, or sentiments, which give direction to the character of man. Who has not, a hundred times, found himself committing a vile or a stupid action, for no other reason than because he knows he should not? Have we not a perpetual inclination, in the teeth of our best judgement, to violate that which is Law, merely because we understand it to be such?

– Edgar Allan Poe, The Black Cat (1843)

Anders Odden is here with us from the band Cadaver, inc. He was an original member of Cadaver by its release schedule, and was with them on their two most popularly-known works on Earache records. He has now launched with others Cadaver, inc., which is an entirely different type of music within the same genre.

When did Cadaver form and what bands inspired the members at the time?

The first Cadaver was formed when a Black metal band called Baphomet split in 1988. We then got the bassplayer from Decay Lust and recorded the first album in 1989/90. The bands who inspired us at the time were Voivod, Slayer, Carcass, Celtic Frost and Morbid Angel.

Do any of you have strong political, religious, or philosophical beliefs, and what are they?

I’m a public enemy. I doubt that anything created by man ever will bring us to a higher level. I deny the church and all its powersymbols. Why is it that all the main religions come out of the middle east?! Religon and politics are there to oppress people. I feel the life we have today is basically without any goals and I’d like to own a little stuff as possible. I tend to get lots of shit piled up anyway, but I’m a fan of throwing stuff away. I dont know, maybe I’m full of BS…

If a drunken man falls down the stairs, he does not feel what would be painful for me. Some say the same applies to youthful indifference to death. How do you feel this influenced, if at all, your music?

I don’t think it had anything to do with what our music was. We just wanted to be able to play as good as our favorite bands, nothing more.

Did you have any favorites in the Swedish death metal genre? What did you think of God Macabre, Demigod, Dismember and Therion?

Not really. Of the bands you mention I’ve only heard Dismember and Therion. I like Black metal more than death metal.

Now that you’ve come back with Cadaver, inc., are people responding to the older material as well as the newer? Are you going to repress the first two albums?

We have played Innominate and Corrosive Delirium from Hallucinating and Mr. Tumour’s Misery from In pains… live. Those songs go down really well, but Earache has no plans for reissuing yet. It will be done some day with lots of extrastuff on it I guess. I have tons of live, demos and unreleased shit around my house, so it will be done.

It seems to me that …In Pains is from the same era as the first Darkthrone album, where metal experimented with mood and mellower textures in the death metal style. What inspired this album’s genesis?

This is easy to say now looking back. It’s never in your thought when you make stuff what the historic aspect of things will be. In Pains was released around the same time as Blaze in the Northern sky, so I felt we were very different band then. In 1992 I turned into industrial music for some time and didn’t follow black metal until 95 again. I saw the death metal era end in 92/93 when black metal revitalized everything, but felt it was my past and didnt care that much. You got to remember that the difference between death/black wasnt that obvious before 91/92. Mobid Angel is the best example of a band in between the genres. I always wanted to gain that sort of independent ground for my stuff and this is where I feel Cadaver Inc. belong. Along towards the genres and trends.

The first album had a tuba player as a member of the band. While some called this a gimmick, it seemed a natural experiment at thetime, since the tuba provides a gnarly low-end sound that could complement higher guitars.

What do you think of this when looking back upon it, and for what reason was this choice made?

It was trombone. You have to remember that Celtic Frost inspired us very much in the experimenting with things such as this. Into the Pandemonium and To Megatherion have lots of “brass” sections and weird things in it. It is still our intro when we play live, so it’s a trademark I guess.

Who are your personal musical idols?

In metal it’s forever Slayer, Celtic Frost, Voivod and Morbid Angel. These bands offer their own personal twist that you can hear on all their records. Apart from this I’m a big fan of classical composers such as Grieg and Mozart. They are true genius.

If you recorded another album in the worldview of the original Cadaver, what do you think it would be?

It will never happen.

What’s next for Cadaver, inc? Are you planning to evolve further in the direction that seems to be current, or taking a different step?

We have started working on the next album and I can reveal that it’s going to be much darker than this one. If Discipline is a agressive record the next will be more insane. I have left some of the writing to our drummer Czral this time, and his ideas are very sick. It’s very inspiring to have a band with such a high level of musicalityflowing. We are sure the next record will bring us a long step forward and that’s our focus all the time.

You mention that you like throwing things away. This touches a part of all of us I think that wishes to be unencumbered by material things. I’ve noticed many of the more intelligent people I know choose to live light given the unstable nature of the times and the tedious requirements of having stuff. It also resembles the destruction of memories and irrelevant or enslaving alliances, metaphorically and in dreams (from the relation of others). Do you think that removal or consolidation of stuffs, let’s call it garbage removal, is philosophically significant at this time in history?

You are probably right that this is something lots of people now are turning to. I think it’s a reaction towards the main-religion now, which is consumerism. Some people feel very attached to their stuff, and I think it’s a disturbing thing to be this way. We think what we have is important to us, but it’s all tools or necessities for living. The last time I moved me and my wife gave away 5 (!) big plastic bags of clothing. It’s ridiculous to have so much to wear, and we said farewell to a time in our life by throwing it away. It made me think, how the hell did I get so much stuff. I could not remember buying it all or anything. It’s more important to gain selfrespect by doing something rather than buying yourself status. Money alone makes no-one happy, and that’s the bottom line in anyones life. Happiness.

What do you think are the similarities between black metal and industrial music?

I don’t know how anyone see the similarities. It all depends on your perspective about what you think is black metal or industrial. Industrial to me is Skinny Puppy and Front 242. They are not very close to BM.

It seems to me that both have a similar approach to rhythm, relative to death or heavy or speed metal, and that both also focus on atmosphere and originate in a classically-influenced genre. Do you like the music of Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream and Einsturzende Neubauten?

I enjoy Kraftwerk yes. I just have one Einstrutzene album which is great, but I’ve never sat down to listen to Tangerine Dream.

I’m going to rip off a line from Wrath of Averse Sefira (who could name songs from Hallucinating Anxiety in detail when queried at random, not having heard the album in seven years) who said that Celtic Crost in many ways were the first to unify visual aspect, and presentation, of their band with the content of their music and its raw, gnarly aesthetic. in many ways, they birthed grandeur in metal also. Is this something you feel?

Well, they had it all for themself for a long time and came up with very original concepts for album covers, lyrix and musical experimentation. They took metal places it had not been before with their avant garde style of composing. I admire their original style very much and they are the only band I really want to see on a reunion tour.

I agree that Grieg and Mozart are genius. How much of the effect of classical music do you feel is a result of its form, or the abstraction of artistic form in general (in view of jazz, Hendrix and progressive derivations of classical in modern popular music), where form is defined as the method of artistic presentation itself relative to the content, or unique expression within, each work?

Classical music from the 18th century (Grieg, Wagner etc. ) was a result of anti-darwinism and used to show that humans were special and not animals. I think the extreme metal has many of the same thoughts behind it as it’s normally very strict and concrete when it’s performed. The kind of metal we play has no room for improvisation in the way of music with blues/jazz roots. Form and content belong together to produce the music we make. I dont know what you are compearing jazz and hendrix to this for, but maybe I didnt understand your question..(?)

Do you compose with emphasis on rhythmic expectancy, or write riffs for conclusive melodic phrasing?

It’s too abstract to say it this way. I just play what sounds good and experiment alot with strange chords and melodic lines. I’m a riffmaker who needs a great drummer to complete my ideas. I view the overall sound first and foremost.

I asked earlier: if you recorded another album in the worldview of the original Cadaver, what do you think it would be? and you said: “It will never happen.” If we created a temporary reality somewhere where someone like you and the original members of the band somehow came together now, independent of this reality entirely, what would the next Cadaver album sound like? Imagine outside influences of tedium like job, mortality, items, etc.

What was will never be again. I have so different views on music to the rest of the original members that it’s nothing I would even like to do for fun. We have no plans for this and I’m pretty sure it’s never gonna happen…

You mentioned that Czral was writing more of the material on this round. Are you still influenced by black metal and industrial, or reaching toward a different sound?

We have written 3 new songs now. Czral has one song which is entirely with his riffs, and the other 2 have 1 riff from him and 1 riff from LJ in it. It sounds very exiting to us right now, but we dont know where it’s taking us yet. It’s more midpaced tempos now, but the blastbeats are still there too. I dont know what kind of industrial you’re taking about, but it’s got some more black metal to it than “discipline” so far.

How do you write songs as a band? Have you taken advantage of virtual songwriting (sending MP3s, tapes, WAVs, CDRs, to each other)?

We have 1 rehearsal a week were we try to complete 1 song each time. It’s a very ambitious project, but it’s forcing us to work on ideas all the rest of the week. We just meet now and then to check out riff and ideas with each other at home. We all live pretty close so that’s why it works.

I saw a little of your Milwaukee Metalfest performance last year (I think – I was wasted, and never visited the bar – it may have been a couple years ago) and it seemed like the music acquired a very linear quality with the tunneling dynamics of the hall. What would it be like to write music if you practiced in a huge thunderous concert hall?

That would have been useless. We play with volume down to hear all details and work towards recording in a studio, so the less noisy the better. I’m not 15 years old anymore…

I like the idea of practicing softly for better discernment. Do you play any acoustic instruments? By the same principle, they must also strengthen musicianship.

I play the piano and acoustic guitar too yes.

Do any of the members of Cadaver, inc endorse any lifestyles including drugs, cannibalism, sodomy, genocide, war, polygamy, polyamory or Judeo-Christian homegrown goodness?

We are so different people privately that I really don’t know that much about the rest of the guys in those terms. I don’t like bands that assure people they are normal all of the time. What is normal? I’m a creative person that seeks oppertunities for myself, and I work in the music-business fulltime. It’s lifestyle bound together by the music, all of the above is for people that needs a hobby. . .
very interesting. as a professional musician, you are here for musical reasons only. this explains the musical contributions of your works. what do you think are your largest contributions, as a musician, to the musical lexicon of death and black metal?

I dont know really. I find that the people who really remember what Cadaver did are mostly musicians themselves. It’s not easy for me to see what my contribution might be. Maybe it’s almost nothing so far, and that my real contribution will be in the future.

Anything else you’d like to talk about?

Another thing, I feel very much more in relation to the Black metal scene than the death metal scene of today. If you file Cadaver Inc. under anything, it should be black metal.

Thank you. Keep on buying CD’s so we can release as many as we can write!

This eternal accusation against Christianity I shall write upon all walls, wherever walls are to be found—I have letters that even the blind will be able to see. . . . I call Christianity the one great curse, the one great intrinsic depravity, the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are venomous enough, or secret, subterranean and small enough,—I call it the one immortal blemish upon the human race. . . . And mankind reckons time from the dies nefastus when this fatality befell—from the first day of Christianity!—Why not rather from its last?—From today?—The transvaluation of all values! . . .

– F.W. Nietzsche, The Antichrist

Monotheistic religions alone furnish the spectacle of religious wars, religious persecutions, heretical tribunals, that breaking of idols and destruction of images of the gods, that razing of Indian temples and Egyptian colossi, which had looked on the sun 3,000 years: just because a jealous god had said, “Thou shalt make no graven image.”

– Arthur Schopenhauer, Religion: a Dialogue (1851)

the anus.com metal development team was lucky to catch lori bravo during a break from work with her new band, Raped. she was kind enough to consent to an off-the-cuff interview which had some remarkable results.

as those who are fans of early death metal know, lori and her band nuclear death were instrumental in developing the genre in its early days. still carrying touches of thrash from the previous generation, she and her bandmates forged forward with a unique and devastating style of music. read on to learn what inflames her passion and willpower toward the making of metal.

Nuclear Death sounded to me like it descended halfway from the progressive extremist speed metal (“thrash”) of the previous decade, mixing that with its fundamentally deathy influence. If you could name something that you’d heard in the time leading up to the creation of the nuclear death works, what influenced you the most?

I would say…Discharge,Venom,Mercyful Fate,Black Flag and Russian Classical.

What art do you enjoy outside of metal?

Actually…I do not listen to alot of ‘metal’…..I am into punk and hardcore, jazz and fusion, classical, indie-rock…..and of course the works of Goya, Picasso, Bosch, Giger, Mapelthorpe, Giger, Rimbaud, Smith, Morrison, Plath, Baudelaire, Whitman, Kerouac, Manson, Wilde, Cobain, Saffo……..etc.

Do you consider art to have relative grades of complexity?

Of course…but I also….believe the most simplest of lines can be most complex in nature.

Is your current band metal, or a metal fusion? i ask because many metal artists choose after an underground success to turn to the mainstream somewhat, mostly looking for new worlds to conquer.

I do not believe that I have even achieved what you dubbed as ‘successful’…..My new band is called RAPED…and it is a fusion of my anger,jealousy,hatred,hopefulness and liberation from boyfriends,bullshit and sexism!!!I call it arte-sexed-dark-edged-fuckyourface-off music….or GRRRLCORE!!

What do you think about drugs, group sex and fascism?

Drugs are how we as a society seem to cope…I mean EVERYBODY’S on SOMETHING!!!Group sex is great…do it SAFELY….I am in the sex business..I strip….SAFTEY..PEOPLE….I CAN’T STRESS THAT POINT ENOUGH!!!Fascism in shit…but it is a big part of life…..I don’t think it is going to go away…so we,as artists,need to address the issue and alert the public on how much it ruins us internally and externally as many times as we can write a song ,paint a canvas, make a film or make a statement!

If you saw a black spot on a purely white wall, would you consider the wall to have an entrance, or the spot to have a boundary?

Entrance…I don’t beleive in boundaries…that is limited to me…I don’t like limits!!!!

What in your mind are the usefulness of these states: caprice and serendipity?

I Love impulsiveness in all things!!!! Spur of the moment……A whim of change….some of the best things are built from this lovely little spurt!Beautiful ‘accidents’…..serendipity is how I have managed to write every fucking thing that is good and paint a canvas that is worth viewing!!!!! I am a creative FUCKUP!!!

If you were suspended in a reality where another Nuclear Death album might be made, what in your mind might it sound like?

If Steve and I did another…I think it would be an in your face muse….RAPED is the result of what ND spawned.

If you had four minutes to give advice to a young metal band, it might be…?

Don’t sign anything without a lawyer, never compromise your principles, be yourselves, listen to your inner voices and take NO shit!!!!

What do you think about commerce, morality and the holiday of Easter?

Trade and buy/sell rules the world…enjoy it…Sexually-speaking…let’s fuck!Even I have morals…..Have CLASS people! You can be Hardcore without losing your integrity….Easter…..I like the iconography aspects and rituals…..rising from death…aint it sweet…..Bunnies for everyone!!!!!

I like the shorter song format with some bands, offhandedly naming Carcass and DRI, as it allows a fragment of a consciousness to momentarily express itself and vanish, where a full song might have to artificially include other subject matter to flesh out the shit. Then again, if you write your lyrics when wasted or careless, what flows might be pure subconscious dialogue and therefore might be effective. It seemed to me some study went into the Nuclear Death lyrics, no matter how hasty their creation. What sorts of ideas and systems of thought were influencing you at the time?

Alcohol,drugs,reading,sex,fear and dreams.

What do you think of capitalism, Christianity and Zionism?

Good and bad….I hate corporate-owned anything…but what are you going to do….do it yourself and put it on the net……christianity has been so fucking twisted and raped of its origins and beliefs,honestly,I think Christ would want to kill those fuckers,I believe every people should be able to ‘go home’…we all deserve our place.

Are you a large fan of any mainstream media?

I am pop cultured,you know? I like anything that I find interesting!

Often relationships in bands are as stressed as two cops dating. Do you have any advice in the most general sense in this area?

Fuck….it’s a marriage,respect eachother.

Do you own guns or dogs, and what kind of vehicle do you drive? Do you see these questions as destructive to the persona of a metal artist and therefore not worth answering? I hope so, but if not let me know. I want one of the new glock .357s to take out that pesky streetlight.

I own a 45 and a single-shot….I am slave to 5 cats…I cycle..I never have driven.

The aura combined of artistic form and content that is metaphorically relevant in a wrenching evocation of the sickness and desires of the current time, if present intelligently, can form the basis for powerful metal. Do these ideas “strike a chord” with any of your own?

I think we are a highly intelligent form of music…..we present to the listener what one may or may not want to face.Look…if you have shit lyrics…I don’t care how great the music is…..I won’t give you a second thought.

Do you have plans to write a book?

Yes……I have poetry,as well as a tell-all in the worx

If i were a gangbanger, anytime I shot someone, I’d say “you’d better hope for reincarnation!” Do you think reincarnation is likely, or is it another for the “wishful thinking” file?

I think it is bullshit…..This is MY fucking unique soul..when I die that is it!

Have you heard Burzum, Dead Brain Cells or Absurd?

No….turn me on……

What do you think are the faults of www.anus.com/metal, and why do you think many people hate us?

Because you are too intelligent for most dumbfuck metal-heads…..fuck ’em…you RULE!!!!

Do you visit any bulletin boards, chat rooms or use an instant messenger?

Oh yes….My s/n is insectbride…..I am a member of Hole’s message board,Distillers,TSOL’s…oh yessssssssss!!!!

Is Saddam Hussein a CIA plant?

Could be…..dunno….I think he is an android.

If you had no limitations and could make any music you would choose, how would your music differ?

Listen to RAPED….I have no limitations!!!!I know what I like.

What makes Arizona for you an attractive place of residence? After I drove through I considered moving, as it had a laid backness to the city.

I hate it…..That is why I am moving to LA,permanently in May!!!!I love the filth,corruption,trashedout ways of big cities…I am from Chicago…for fuxsake!!!!

Many thanks for any answers you can do. Some of these questions will be unanswerable, but I have designed them based on your other interview so that you will have fun with them, I hope. I will send you finished copy and we’ll cut any that don’t succeed. Hails and vomits…

..Thanx…I had a great time with your interview…….one of the best I have gotten in a while…..actually, I found ALL answerable!!!! I can rap for hours,Love…….New Nuclear Death/RAPED contact is my Email!!!!

IN DEATH AND CRUELTY….VO/Lori

The Christian concept of a god—the god as the patron of the sick, the god as a spinner of cobwebs, the god as a spirit—is one of the most corrupt concepts that has ever been set up in the world: it probably touches low-water mark in the ebbing evolution of the god-type. God degenerated into the contradiction of life. Instead of being its transfiguration and eternal Yea! In him war is declared on life, on nature, on the will to live! God becomes the formula for every slander upon the “here and now,” and for every lie about the “beyond”! In him nothingness is deified, and the will to nothingness is made holy! . . .

– F.W. Nietzsche, The Antichrist