2016 marks twenty years since the release of Immolation’s sophomore album Here In After. Completely leaving speed metal convention behind, dissonant riffing and jazzy drumming weld into an infernal, polyrythmic Bosch canvas. All songs burn narratively: verses melt into Vigna’s Luciferian leads. These guitar heroics marshaling the hellfire make Here In After a dawn-bringer for the uninitiated in Immolation. Crucify the criminal Christ again!
Tags: 1996, alliteration, anniversary, Bob Vigna, Craig Smilowski, dali, death metal, easter, Here In After, immolation, news, Today's playlist, Today's Recommended Playlist
Great picture to accompany the article. I love Dali’s work.
Nailed to Gold has one of the best guitar leads in all of death metal.
That song in particular has one of the most bizarre cadences I’ve heard. The restraint used to force the riffs to not land on the one rhythmically might be accidental but still has an effect that gives the song a very alien push/pull vibe. Whoever drums for them now could never replicate it.
Are you talking about the weird extra partial measure at the end of each phrase in the refrain? I can’t even figure out how they wrote that, apparently they just listen to the drummer to anticipate the downbeat.
Yeah- which means it had to be a total nightmare to record! But if it had a normal meter, the ebb/flow nature of it wouldn’t exist. It feels like you struggle to get uphill and then freefall until the world makes sense again.
On the subject of album release anniversaries, Samael’s “Worship Him” turns 25 this Friday.
This is probably Immolation’s best album. Also, can we just take a moment to recognize the fact that this band released at least 5 quality albums in a row, even during the absolute nadir of metal in the early 2000s? I’m unaware of any other death metal band whose output has been both as consistent and as quality as Immolation’s.
True that. Close To A World Below is solid gold.
But isn’t Christiany one of the pillars for the creation of the United States of America and, without it, this great civiliaztion that the USA is would have never existed?
Who in their right mind would antagonize with the religion of our forefathers ??
In this time when the Muslim plague threatens to destroy Western Civilization it is really hard to side with anti-Christian sentiments, even for seasoned metallers (with a functioning brain that is).
Also, cocks for yall.
You have committed the logical fallacy of argument from association.
Christianity stands on its own merits. That great men have been Christian is not relevant. every one had to be Christian or pretend to for long periods of time anyway. But more importantly, even if a great man is freely Christian, that is not relevant to whether or not Christianity is good. Read its book and value it based on its own intrinsic traits.
or could it be that Christi(ns)anity is merely another manifestation of the monotheistic plague, and the collective soul of the Europeans was simply strong enough to mold it into something workable? Remember, two-thirds of the Christian world (those two thirds being the non-European portion) was almost immediately conquered by the Muslims when they started to expand.
Agree with you on the need for more anti-Islam in metal though. Satan is kind of old hat at this point. To quote Peste Noire’s hurdy-gurdy player: “When Satan parades the podiums of the Grammy Awards with Watain, is he still frightening? When Satan is played by Inquisition on those cruise ships, is he still frightening?”
Then again, Immolation never really got into the whole Satan thing outside of their album covers. I always found their lyrics to be something of a weak point, apart from a few choice cuts like “You will all be fooled when he reveals hhimself” etc. I’ve got nothing against the vocals or the music though. Both of those aspects are usually perfect, even on the newer more Mercyful Fate-ish rock/black metal albums.
“But isn’t Christiany one of the pillars for the creation of the United States of America and, without it, this great civiliaztion that the USA is would have never existed?”
That the US of A is a great civilisation is very debatable, thus it would not necessarily have been a bad thing had it never come to be.
“Who in their right mind would antagonize with the religion of our forefathers ??”
The religion of my forefathers was definitely not christianity! At least some of my forefathers were probably very antagonistic towards christians and christianity.
“In this time when the Muslim plague threatens to destroy Western Civilization it is really hard to side with anti-Christian sentiments […]”
Islam is just an updated version of christianity. Abrahamic religions were created by weak-minded desert-dwellers. They constitute the morality of slaves and an instrument of oppression. They are an affront to any human valuing his innate ability for life, thought and emotion.
“seasoned metallers (with a functioning brain that is).”
I take it as my duty to inform you that you are not part of this category.
The value of an idea (or ideology) is based upon what the individuals who preach(ed) them have actually created/destroyed concretely, not on what they claim will happen or how the world will be better if everyone agrees with them. Christendom has had some bad hiccups, especially after communist agents infiltrated the higher echelons of the “concrete” church (there’s an abstract one) but ultimately, it helped the west bye preserving the knowledge the roman empire left, just that already warrants it some honor. Now, Christendom has been turned mostly into pacifism – the let everyone die, let REAL EVIL win and don’t raise a hand because you don’t even know what’s going on type (and that’s part of the beauty: be an eternally, discontent, alienated rejecter or be a lethargic pacifist – both mindsets produce nothing of value in the end). I’ve said this before – the great decline in western civilization didn’t start with, but was incredibly impulsed by the baby-boomers and their seeds of cultural alienation (rejection of the values your own parents taught you to look independent and critic – something all young people nowadays want to LOOK like).
I think I missed the point. What I wanted to say is basically that true Christendom is the basis for morality in western society. Christianity as it is today, can’t be the base of anything, but the core values are still in the best interest of anyone (even satanists) to keep. Otherwise, we’ll have eternally more monstrous societies than we already have at this point as the psychopathic elites keep pushing their social engineering and creating people who love being slaves and accept the inherent lack of value their lives have in the eyes of the most well-adapted “masters”.
By the way, let’s put some books and perhaps one documentary, instead of just coming here and spitting “opinions”. Track your own thoughts. Here it goes:
Books:
Anatoliy Golitsyn – New lies for old
Anatoliy Golitsyn – The perestroika deception
Andrew M. Lobaczewski – Political Ponerology (A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes)
E. Michael Jones – Libido Dominandi: Sexual Liberation & Political Control
G. Edward Griffin – Fearful Master: A Second Look at the United Nations
Joseph Douglas – Red cocaine: The drugging of America and the West
Richard Humbrand – Marx & Satan
These are the ones I’ve read/am reading myself up to this point. There are more on my list of “to read” stuff.
Videos:
Aldous Huxley – Speech at UC Berkeley, The Ultimate Revolution 1962 (easily found on youtube – stay for Aldous’ speach – I imagine some of the edgier kids around will TOTALLY support it xD)
CULTURAL MARXISM: The Corruption of America (you can easily find it on youtube)
The triumph of cultural marxism (also easily found on youtube)
These two were chosen because they bring up facts and documents over that old sensational pseudo-documentary style that I can’t stomach.
I’ll look for more as I read and perhaps post it here again, depending on how badly you backlash. Best regards.
And oh yes. Killer album! o/
By the way, I’d like to take this opportunity to commend the new editor of DMU on his phrasing and textual tone, being quite warrior-like and fitting for a true Hessian.
Personally, I always wanted Dan to write more when I was editing.
The first five Immolation albums will never leave my shelve or my hard drive. They have a unique sense of rhythm, harmony, and melody compared to the other death metal acts of their era. Plus the band was constantly making subtle changes to their sound from one CD to the next. Some of their early songs can be a bit too reliant on straight blastbeats, but the overall strength of those first five albums is still excellent.
I don’t see anything essential about their work from “Harnessing Ruin” onward, though. I’d say their creative flames died there and haven’t been revived since. They do still play very well live, so definitely catch them if they come to your city.
To lump christianity and islam in the same bag because they are both abrahamic religions is silly. I for one interpret Immolation’s works as a promotion of rationalism/secularism/atheism. These ideals replaced the old monarchy/church system after the French and American revolutions, but a lot of it was a reinterpretation of christian values – the legal system in most western countries still evidences this today. Which brings me back to my first point: the message of Jesus Christ is about forgiveness. Mohammed’s is not. We do not cut hands off thieves, we do not stone women. We put criminals in prison, but after they served their time, we say “go, and sin no more”. That, to me, is a fundamental difference between eastern and western conceptions of society.
I agree that Christianity and Islam are very different. They are different kinds of trash.
Like it or not, it’s a foundation of the society model that has allowed a subculture like metal to develop, unlike in other cultures. That’s all I’m saying. I was brought up as a catholic but later became agnostic/skeptic. Again, because I was allowed to have a choice. Elsewhere, I would have been ostracised or even killed.
Anti Christian sub cultures like metal are allowed to exist because Christianity has been defeated. It was defeated by The “Enlightenment” movement and the French revolution.
Before then, you would indeed have been put to death for being anti Christian, or merely non Christian.
Islam has not yet been defeated, and still rules Arabia.
What the French Revolution defeated is fanatical catholicism and the absolutist monarchy. The French Church and State didn’t officially separate before 1905. And like I said, christian values continue to permeate our legal systems and social organisation today. The church’s influence is weakened, that is true, but just look how many people suddenly feel part of a christian country again, when confronted with the threat of islamic invasion.
Also… I think you exagerate the weight of the anti-christian element in metal. It started off as a joke, then it was taken seriously for a few years , then it became a joke again.
I am not referring on overt anti Christian lyrics, which are over represented in metal compared to other genres, and not without reason. I am referring to the ideas themselves behind metal. And those ideas are incompatible with Christian ideas.
Christianity is weak, because it has been defeated by competing ideas in the rest of society, and has been forced to adapt. Even the Christians aren’t really following the bible. They are weak Christians. Islam has more serious followers who actually do as the book commands, because Islam has not been forced to adapt to competing ideologies.
Back in 2003, GW Bush reportedly admitted to French president Jacques Chirac that the invasion of Iraq was partly motivated by his religious convictions (source is available on wikipedia). More generally, no one can deny that christianity is way stronger in America than here in western Europe. I believe a no small cause of metal’s obsession with religion is the fact that middle America is full of bible thumpers.
I’ve always thought that black metal was rebellious music for bored middle class white christian kids. It’s no wonder it first emerged in the wealthiest and more overly christian parts of Europe. The second you stop believing in heaven or fearing hell, it all but loses its appeal. I’ve known the Dark Legions Archives for 15 years or so, and although a lot of the album reviews still are some of the most interesting around, I can no longer believe in the idea of heavy metal being a projection of an underlying philosophy, especially considered what metal has become today. It’s mostly been a sham, with the odd stroke of genius, but that’s just me.
“I can no longer believe in the idea of heavy metal being a projection of an underlying philosophy”
All genuine music is the reflection of the creator’s mind, ideas, and values. Just by listening to metal alone, you should be able to tell what it’s about. But if you can’t do that, then just read the lyrics.
Metal is closer to the ideal of Thor than it is to the ideal of Jesus.
What are you trying to say with George Bush being a Christian? Are you trying to say that Christianity is equal to Islam?
I despise Christianity, but it is obvious that Islam is the most harmful and destructive religion right now.
After all, it’s the USA that made Black Sabbath superstars. The shock value was much lessened in the more liberal context of western Europe. While Ozzy got death threats from Jesus freaks in Texas, his main claim to fame back in rural English Midlands was how many pints a minute he could down at his local boozer.
Shadows in the Light was a well constructed album albeit more simplified than classic era
Immolation. As for Christianity, I would agree that it is more important to discover the doctrine itself via the Church Fathers etc. As a side note it is also important not to conflate Christianity proper with derivative forms of Protestantism, at least for the purpose of genuine historical analysis ( not to mention a genuine understanding of what Metal has found reprehensible in “Christianity”).
There are plenty of sentiments in the bible itself (which has been edited, I know) that are incompatible with a metal spirit.
For one, the value of faith as a virtue.
“You have seen me, and therefore you believe. But blessed are those who have not seen me and yet believe” – Jesus.
Metal sees the left hand path as greater than the right hand path.
It is better to die on one’s feet than to live on one’s knees. In Christianity, what is considered the highest potential for humanity is for it to be on its knees for the master, obedient, unquestioning, without free thought.
It’s not even possible to reach salvation without accepting the sacrifice of an innocent being (Jesus) as taking on your blame. The blame, by the way, which is on your shoulders for something that you didn’t even do. Just for being human and existing, you need forgiveness. It doesn’t matter if you are the greatest human to have ever lived – you still need saving and forgiveness.
This is obviously incompatible with metal. Christianity is an ideology for willing slaves.
Of course, reality is what it is regardless of how pleasant or unpleasant it is to us. If the Christian god was real, then I would probably trade my honour and dignity to avoid eternal torture. I would still be tortured, knowing that I was ruled by a petty tyrant, and that other humans were burning in hell, but I would at least avoid said burning myself.
However, to believe that this is real, and to revel in it, is truly disgusting. I understand that you believe it. You may have had some spiritual experience, or maybe you were indoctrinated as a child. But how can you be happy about it? How can you not be depressed and lethargic?
For the purpose of debating the merits of a religious/philosophical position it is always best to be as charitable as possible to the opposing viewpoint before attacking it. My personal viewpoints aside, the expressed notion that Christianity is an ideology for willing slaves is pure rhetoric as of yet, i.e., not logically deduced from any principles that have as yet been espoused in this discussion (but damn it sounds edgy). As a side note, the highest thinkers in the Catholic tradition would not even disagree with your assertion that Christianity is an ideology for willing slaves (although, I challenge you to provide me with a definition of Ideology for the purpose of clarification) albeit with a different connotation. Personally I think Hessian thinkers would be better served if they took Christianity as it manifested itself in the pre-reformation era seriously and thus debated the internal merits of the doctrine itself, keeping in mind the doctrine of charity espoused earlier. This should especially be applied to any definition of faith which conflates faith in God with a belief in Santa, as opposed to a faith in sound and accepted first principles, i.e., the value of deductive reasoning vs inductive reasoning, the inherent value of the scientific method, or the capacity/accuracy of our reasoning facult itelf.
I would say the same thing about any religion/philosophical outlook just for the record.
My view on Christianity is based on biblical texts. I do not respect pseudo Christians who project their own innate morality on to Christianity, while ignoring the bible’s words. If you are going to reject it, then reject it properly and be honest about it.
Quotes like “The only way to heaven is through me”
and
“Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ” – Ephesians 6:5
and
“The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.” – Corinthians 14:34
Prove that according to the bible, not only should some humans submit to other humans based on pre determined social status rather than merit, but humans in general should be submissive to Christ.
It’s well known that the bible was written by different people at different times, under the influence of different environments, hence it is going to be full of contradictions, and it’s extremely easy to dismiss the whole thing as a load of bollocks based on quoting the sillier passages. You can’t compare that to the work of a modern times philosopher who’s patiently assembled a coherent system with regards to peer critic in the back of their mind. Some things in the bible make sense, a lot are bollocks, but it didn’t matter one bit back when masses were said in Latin to a population of half starved, illierate peasants. It’s all about interpretation. Islamic terrorism really took off after the Saudi clergy issued a fatwa in 2004 to call all muslims to fight Americans in Iraq. People didn’t just read the quran and went “let’s go kill these white pigs”.
Another good illustration just popped in my mind… I know an Indonesian who admitted to me that he only understands some bits of his prayers (muslims pray in Arabic). You can’t “defeat” a religion, you can’t exterminate all of its followers, but you can put other people at the heads of religious authorities. I wouldn’t be half as scared of Charia if islam clerics back in Saudi Arabia were more like Pope Francis than this guy http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saud/interviews/alomar.html
“It’s well known that the bible was written by different people at different times, under the influence of different environments, hence it is going to be full of contradictions, and it’s extremely easy to dismiss the whole thing as a load of bollocks based on quoting the sillier passages”
Then how do you know what the “real” Christianity is, and what is “fake”? What good is the word of god if it’s not his word?
“You can’t compare that to the work of a modern times philosopher who’s patiently assembled a coherent system with regards to peer critic in the back of their mind”
I’ll read the book myself and make up my own mind. Taking a Christian’s word on the bible is like taking a third wave feminist’s word on the state of gender equality. I prefer to look at facts and statistics, since they are unbiased.
“Islamic terrorism really took off after the Saudi clergy issued a fatwa in 2004 to call all muslims to fight Americans in Iraq. People didn’t just read the quran and went “let’s go kill these white pigs”.”
I don’t know why this is relevant or why you are talking about it, but islam has been violent from the beginning, because it preaches violence. The message in the book is not the only factor in determining the behaviour of its adherents, but it is one. That is why 99% of all terrorist attacks are committed by muslims.
Islam was spread by the sword. Muslims are commanded to follow the example of Mohammed. Some Muslims who are born in socialist Europe travel to Syria to fight for Isis. Not a single Jain or Buddhist does it.
It is objectively easier to interpret the koran as preaching violence against infidels, than it is to do so for other religions. A fundamental Jain who reads his texts literally will not be violent.
Do you want me to give you the koran passages which literally command that apostates should be killed?
Or that women should be subservient to their husbands, and punished if they disobey?
Because those passages may have something to do with the crime statistics in Sweden.
Honour killings were virtually / statistically non existent before immigration from muslim countries.
A study by the Swedish government which compared crime rates between native Swedes, first generation immigrants, and second generation immigrants, found that immigrants were over represented in crime.
The most striking statistic was that of rape. 14% of population (the immigrants) committed around 30% of the rapes. When we only look at assaulting rapes, that statistic changes to 46%.
I have the source, but it’s in Swedish. If it’s because of different culture, of which religion is a part, then what is the cause for this truth?
If it’s not because of a different culture*
If a Jain priest declared a holy war ( a concept that does not exist in Jainism ), do you think that it would have the same effects as if an Imam does it?
Environmental circumstances matter, but so does the religion itself.
There’s many examples of violence against non believers in the bible as well as in the history of Europe. The dominant trend since the last 2 or so centuries though is forgiveness. Maybe that aspect of the religion was privileged to better acommodate with the humanist values of the Renaissance and the French revolution. Whatever happened, christianity probably became more pacific because its interpretation became less literal and more abstract. Islam too has had slightly more liberal phases that allowed some progress in the arts and science (think Spain before the Reconquista or the Arab mathematicians in the middle ages).
As for the problems related to muslim immigration, I think religion is only an aspect of it. Wearing a niqab is banned inside the Mecca. In fact nowhere in the quran it is mentioned that women should wear niqabs. There’s an identity problem, and the split between the family background and a consumerist society is too large a gap for many. The most fanatical IS fighters are the ones who were born and raised in France, Britain, Germany, Belgium. They endorse the jihadi uniform the same way insecure teenagers endorse corpse paint.
1:
Only muslims rebel by joining a terrorist organization which rapes yazidis and murders jews. So clearly, when muslims do it, it’s worse.
2:
Yes, like I said, Christianity was forced to bend to the will of society, causing a watered down and less pure interpretation. This has not happened with islam, and I maintain that islam is more resistant to such change. Evolutionarily, it is a stronger but less adaptable religion.
Fun fact: 99% of all terrorist attacks are committed by muslims, and less than 1% of scientific papers are produced from muslim majority countries.
Thank-you. :)
Lol
You would make a good Protestant….lol